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Author Topic: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?  (Read 27632 times)

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Offline Sturmkatze

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2008, 11:34:55 PM »
I'm just getting into reenactment, but I'm very excited about it. Anyway, being new to it, I'm not sure about all the problems that are going on, but I have been in other orgs before and I've seen similar sounding things. Here are a few problems as I see it:

- People who don't put in the organization work expect to have an equal say in what happens
- Everyone wants to be the hero

I think the best solution is that whoever is running the event has final say. And they should assign people roles when they register for the event. That way you can make sure you have the right number of people of the right rank.
Nah, it's a "Walter Mitty" thing... it's not so much the rank, it's the attitudes. I have an article I'm writing about WWI reenacting and motivations -- same kind of thing. You have different types of reenactors, some of which are:
  • The Cap Busters (or we can call 'em "shooters")[/color]
  • The ?Poets?
  • The ?scholars?
  • The "collectors"
  • The ?dress-up king?
  • The ?gun nuts?
  • Tactics "gurus"

There are just far too many reasons for reenacting to all work together, even if it is a great idea.
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- There is a huge barrier to entry due to cost of the kit.

As to the barrier to entry, this seems to be a big problem also. People can't try the hobby to see if they like it without dropping about a thousand dollars. Maybe have some civilian roles people could play for example?
Alas, nice idea, but not practical... 99% come to reenact the war, not civilian life, although, 1940's life is a fascination to many of us.
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Or don't be as picky about kit. Sure, if everyone has the exact right thing that's great, but personally I think it's more fun to have more people who are eager to role play than to have only a handful with the exact right thing.
NO! Here's the thing, when you start lowering your standards to allow everyone to "play" and all, you diminish it for the others. Why do it right when you see a constant parade of poor impressions? No, you have to hold firm on this. Help them out, but don't lower everyone else to the level of the lessor player.
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Also, I think the rules about who can play what are rather strict. I know someone who wants to be HJ but is too old it seems. I think that as long as people act the role well that's where the fun is.
WHY would he want to be HJ if he's old? We all have to realize that there becomes a point where we can't do something anymore. Same as a black guy wanting to portray a Waffen-SS soldier or ME, wanting to portray a Zulu warrior. And yes, I know there are "round eyes" doing Japanese for WWII and Charlies for Vietnam reenacting. C'est la Vie! And I might as well say it: Women shouldn't portray men! I am SURE it makes me a sexist pig, but I'm not, I just think it's bullshiteeeee to DEMAND everyone has to be allowed to play. This hobby's not Kindergarten -- we pay to be here, we pay for our kit and if some lawyer wishes to tell us we HAVE to do it a certain way, I can take my toys, tell him to F.O.! and go home. It's a hobby. It's also not a happy- happy, joy-joy thing... do it right. (\:=) |||

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But hey, that's me and as I said, I'm a newb to all this. :)
As we all have been-- you'll learn my young Padawan. Some day you will look back and go "Oh yeah, that idiot was right!"  yoy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:39:21 PM by Sturmkatze »
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Offline battlebaby4

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2008, 10:32:20 AM »
Here is a excellent song written by SSgt. Barry Sadler who wrote The Ballad of the Green Beret. It is " Garet Trooper". Everything we have in reenacting is in the Army too. If you get a chance download or buy the CD, its a truthful song.
 I would like to read your article for WW 1. Sounds like a non PC article. The way articles use to be.
 Another I totally agree with no girl soldiers or female reporters on the field either. We know of one who feels she can do it cause of  her so called power in the hobby. I still remember 2 paratroopers holding hands at a reenactment in Bedford ,Pa some years ago. Wish I took a photo of it. ;D

 Pat
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 10:34:26 AM by battlebaby4 »
99th Infantry Division, 393rd Regiment, Easy Co. "Battlebabies"

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2008, 10:32:20 AM »
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Offline twilight_girl

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2008, 09:28:02 PM »
Quote
  • The Cap Busters (or we can call 'em "shooters")[/color]
  • The ?Poets?
  • The ?scholars?
  • The "collectors"
  • The ?dress-up king?
  • The ?gun nuts?
  • Tactics "gurus"

Can you go into further detail about these types of players? It's neat. I'm wondering where I fit :)

Quote
Alas, nice idea, but not practical... 99% come to reenact the war, not civilian life, although, 1940's life is a fascination to many of us.

Maybe that's the case because the civilians have been turned away? Maybe if groups were more open to it, more people wanting to play civies would become interested.

Quote
WHY would he want to be HJ if he's old? We all have to realize that there becomes a point where we can't do something anymore. Same as a black guy wanting to portray a Waffen-SS soldier or ME, wanting to portray a Zulu warrior. And yes, I know there are "round eyes" doing Japanese for WWII and Charlies for Vietnam reenacting. C'est la Vie! And I might as well say it: Women shouldn't portray men! I am SURE it makes me a sexist pig, but I'm not, I just think it's bullshiteeeeee to DEMAND everyone has to be allowed to play. This hobby's not Kindergarten -- we pay to be here, we pay for our kit and if some lawyer wishes to tell us we HAVE to do it a certain way, I can take my toys, tell him to F.O.! and go home. It's a hobby. It's also not a happy- happy, joy-joy thing... do it right. (\:=) |||

He's interested in the life and roles of the HJ. Hiking and games are more interesting to him than combat. One of the things that I think is great about roleplay is we can do things there that we can't in real life. Like pretend its the 1940s. Or pretend we are 16. I play a 16 year old BDM girl even though I'm 23 irl. Now, I can pass as I look quite young, but still, if someone if more interested in that, I think it's a shame they don't get to play it.

And no one is DEMANDING that everyone be allowed to play, or calling lawyers, or anything like that. But people are wondering why there isn't more interest in the hobby, and I'm saying that you are turning some people away by having such strict rules about who you are in real life.

Anyway, as I said, just my input from my limited observations.


XOXO,
--Twilight

Offline battlebaby4

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2008, 01:18:00 PM »
I believe civilians can have a role in reenacting WW 2. As started by me in the past,my CW Days, in Rockton, Ontraio we have a museum village we fought for. A massive judged tactical that has never been done before. There were 10 stations, aid center, lost civilians with" ladies of the night" with them, spies, snipers, cannons ect.
 Civilians were the judges also and worked many of the sets. This could be done for WW 2 if we could find a museum village willing to do a WW 2 weekend.
 When our Ladies Aid Society does set up period items, CD , RED Cross , homefront items it is a good success with the public. They remember alot of the stuff.
 Living History events are a good place to start. Most combat reenactments are not set up for civilians. In the future they could be. If I could set up something for my Bridge at Remagen event I'll do it for 2009. Have to put my thinking cap on.

 Pat
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 01:19:31 PM by battlebaby4 »
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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2009, 09:00:02 AM »
Daniels, the only problem I have with separate org's by nationality/impression is that you will lose overall comradeship at events. After the fighting, everyone will really go off in separate corners, and even less chance to interact. It's all subdivisions..... it's bad enough that the uniforms now keep people from socializing! I've seen even GI's who "won't go hang with the Krauts". ARGH!! It's a costume, you dolts! We're all WW2 enthusiasts here.

The solution to that is to ban the wearing of uniforms outside the reenactment area. I realize you can't really enforce the ban, but make it a rule nonetheless. Certainly, no one should be wearing quote "Nazi" unquote regalia in public places. Print up unit t-shirts, or even better, t-shirts or polo shirts with the logo of the historical/reenactment society and encourage members to change into civilian clothes after events. In fact, give the shirts away - have it be part of the membership fee. Announce a meeting place for post-event refreshments and state the dress code - jeans and society t-shirts. It would promote the togetherness you're looking for.

I used to be big on masquerading around in period uniform too, but I'm now of a mixed mind as I get older and I wonder if it wasn't a bit of insecurity on our part. If you're booting around a shopping mall or a restaurant in uniform, I think the basic motivation is self-interest at that point - i.e. "look at us."

I did an event on the west coast with the NWHA that was a lot of fun; the post-event gathering was well attended by Allied guys. We were all in uniform - granted, sometimes it's easier just to slip away in uniform without going through the hassle of changing. But I was impressed that the Germans, who had no desire to offend anyone, all changed completely into civilian clothes. They didn't just take the tunics off and walk around in pants and suspenders, the got right down into jeans - and then came and palled around with their buddies in the Allied units.

Offline Sturmkatze

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 10:53:12 PM »
I disagree. I don't go to these things to be in modern clothes. I also don't go to be around the public... in fact I try to avoid anything reeking of a public "battle."

My beef is w/ the GI's (and some Germans) who rip off their uniforms as soon as the battl eis over and either head out for home or want to go drink "Buttwiper" out of aluminum cans or watch John Wayne movies, etc. It's like they're ashamed of the uniform. Most Germans on the other hand (and Brits and Sovs) tend to stay in their kit and have a good time socializing.
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Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

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Offline battlebaby4

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2009, 09:34:07 AM »
In our unit everyone stays in period attire, not costume. Sorry a costume is for a Halloween Party. We are reenactors of a given era. We wear uniforms or period attire.
 As for our members everyone stays in uniform till the bitter end of the event. To change into your "Death Metal Band T-shirt" with wal-mart jeans and sneakers that cost more then a pair of boots you ruin the weekend of being back in time for a short period of time. Theses people wore theses uniforms for years you can do it for a weekend.
 As for wearing your uniform to the store. Who cares. People in modern clothes get more looks then us . Trust me I work in a hospital I see how people dress. We all are far better.

 Pat Tarasovitch
99th Infantry Division, 393rd Regiment, Easy Co. "Battlebabies"

Offline cco23i

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2009, 08:47:05 PM »
This is the way I see it.  After reenacting for over 25 years I have noticed many things.  As was stated before there are the ones who rip off their uniforms and put civies on as soon as they can.  As for me and my compadres, we wear UNIFORMS NOT COSTUMES, heck, many of the uniforms reproduced today you could be transported back to 43 and fit right in.  I know that after hours if any of us have libations they are put into a canteen cup or period container so we can stay as period as possibl.  As for wearing your uniform to a store either prior to or after an event, DO IT!  Heck, try wearing a civil war uniform including heel plate into a store and be "skating" aroun the store gathering supplies.  Remeber all, many of us do this to honor the veterans and to educate, I know the public understands more than many think.


Scott
Msgt. Scott Dunkirk
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WW2 Army air force crew chief
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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2009, 09:27:16 PM »
Every one of you has slightly missed the point I was trying to make, so I'll try again. It's a simple point - Time and place.

If you're at the event, then yes, remain in uniform, be proud, and live in the moment preferably as a unit. Take refreshments as a unit - set up a unit canteen - hell, use it as a fund-raising device for the unit; sell period refreshments, or if that is not palatable, put modern soft drinks, etc., into period containers. I think that is acceptable. You don't need to torture people by expecting them to live on German black bread, sausage and warm water out of aluminum containers for two days straight - not only would it be a disincentive to participating, but it would actually be hazardous to their health. If you don't have an interest in the living history aspects of the hobby, then don't hang around ruining it for those that do; leave the area before changing out of uniform.

I certainly wasn't advocating stripping out of uniform WHILE AT THE EVENT. I meant that if you're going to leave the confines of the event area, then that is the time to get all the way out of uniform. It's not a costume. Modern militaries have regulations about being seen in public in uniform - you're not allowed to wear field dress to the local mall or bar after being in the field for an exercise, for example, all covered in mud and dirt - you go home and strip out of your grungy clothes first. So why should pretend soldiers presume that they should be seen that way? Pat says "we all are far better". Sure, then prove it. Have the pride and discipline to know when to wear the uniform, and when not to. Again - it's a uniform, not a costume.

Offline cco23i

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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2009, 06:00:45 PM »
I understand what you are saying.  When we go to events we have our work uniform, dress uniform and period civilian attire to change into if we wish.  In our case going to a resteraunt smelling like avgas, hydraulic fluid and oil is a bad thing.  That's why we have period civilian clothes.

Scott
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Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2009, 06:00:45 PM »
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