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Time Periods => WWII => Topic started by: Sturmkatze on September 12, 2007, 03:33:41 pm

Title: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Sturmkatze on September 12, 2007, 03:33:41 pm
So I ask: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization? Why, well it seems things are soooo spread out that our efforts are diluted. Authenticity is down and in some ways we seem to ge going backwards :-( What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Antonescu on September 12, 2007, 04:18:36 pm
Know about a group of guys working on a regional type format but not a national one.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on September 12, 2007, 05:48:28 pm
As stated before, I think it would be a great idea, as long as the offices were not abused. I have come to realize that many of the folks who volunteer for such a post put in a lot of their spare time to do it, which is great.... and maybe they do need to be reimbursed in some fashion. Just not free, easy access to the kitty! (as has happened in the past with many org's)

The WW2 HRS might be something to push again.... I hear that they have overcome a lot of squabbles & ill goings-on. Then again, they are the big boy on my block, so yeah. Someone out in CA might feel that theirs is the one to model all others on, and you can see where this might go. Might be an impossible, up-hill battle to try to get everyone on the same page again. And you're always going to have the rebels that simply won't assimilate, for whatever reason.

Put it to a vote, and I'm for it!
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: ssnord on September 16, 2007, 09:23:29 pm
depends on whos running it
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on October 17, 2007, 09:46:28 pm
question how much chatter is their bewteen the diffent major groups?
How about just getting them to talk to each other 1st?
Or is that a pipe deam?
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: historymuseum2000 on October 17, 2007, 11:10:08 pm
I think in theory it would be a good idea, then standards could be the same across the board, units better able to coordinate, events no longer would be competing wth each other, and there would be a level playing field as to saftey regs.

Of course you all know what would happen if the idea of a uniform WWII organization was to come to being; sooner or later one group would not like what another is doing, ( better yet, personalities would clash) and then the split would open up. Different philosophies and attitudes etc., it is just bound to happen.

It is interesting because in Civil War there are several National level organizations, AoP, Cumberland Guard, Western Battalion,( I am dating myself I know, these probably have all changed!) all with different but similar standards. Some were known as being more "hardcore" than others but generally at the big National events all played fairly nice together. Of course from how I understand it now, the move has been to more "mess" size groups who come together to do like minded events, away form the Publik, in the same vein as the GWA.But then there are still the other mainstream events.

I think what would help all the National groups in WWII, would be to find some way in which all can "play" together at large events, still hositng the smaller events within the organizations. Maybe this would get the organizations to  better find a way to accommodate each other for the good of the whole.

Of course there will always be politics, as long as there are personalities and differnces of opinion on why we all do this hobby.No getting rid of that.

I guess if it was put to vote I would be for the Uber organization for all, but as pointed out it would depend on the leadershio and attitudes adopted, which leads us right back to the vicious circle of politics!!

Lee 
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on October 18, 2007, 12:04:17 pm
How about a national organation for each major nation  1 for USA, 1 for German, 1 for Brittish, 1 Russian. smaller national forces would fall in with the one of the larger organation nations that they were allied with in the war. ie Poland either Britt or Russian, Canada would be Britt Finland would go to German and so on and so on.
Each national org could then foucus on just the impression.
This could work you get the seperation that some people need and like yet one group would be in overall "comand"  their would be a rep  from each nation on a governing board (say two from each group)
Just an idea.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Sturmkatze on October 18, 2007, 12:21:18 pm
Won't work... there's too many "Janitor-Generals" who won't give up power :-(
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on October 18, 2007, 02:10:14 pm
Daniels, the only problem I have with separate org's by nationality/impression is that you will lose overall comradeship at events. After the fighting, everyone will really go off in separate corners, and even less chance to interact. It's all subdivisions..... it's bad enough that the uniforms now keep people from socializing! I've seen even GI's who "won't go hang with the Krauts". ARGH!! It's a costume, you dolts! We're all WW2 enthusiasts here. That sort of mentality only breeds it on the other side, which is probably why this grand idea won't work in the long run, unfortunately.

Sorry, I'm normally an optimist  :-\
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on October 19, 2007, 12:02:55 am
Yeah I kinda thought that might be the case, but as I said it was an idea.
Other than "reality rearing it's head" was it a good idea or as Philonivs Maximvs said to prone to segment even more.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on October 19, 2007, 12:55:02 pm
Hey, it's just human nature. We tend to subdivide and form cliques, which is the root of all conflict if you really think about it! Makes you wonder if we'll ever get off this planet in one piece.... hehe
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Antonescu on October 19, 2007, 06:49:36 pm
Daniels, the only problem I have with separate org's by nationality/impression is that you will lose overall comradeship at events. After the fighting, everyone will really go off in separate corners, and even less chance to interact. It's all subdivisions..... it's bad enough that the uniforms now keep people from socializing! I've seen even GI's who "won't go hang with the Krauts". ARGH!! It's a costume, you dolts! We're all WW2 enthusiasts here. That sort of mentality only breeds it on the other side, which is probably why this grand idea won't work in the long run, unfortunately.

Sorry, I'm normally an optimist  :-\

I wear an SS and Romanian impression but you'll see me hanging out with the Russians when they are there. Also it depends on the members on the unit as well. If they are a**holes or whatever I try to avoid them since they make a bad impression with behavior/attitude just by itself.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on October 19, 2007, 10:34:34 pm
Daniels, the only problem I have with separate org's by nationality/impression is that you will lose overall comradeship at events. After the fighting, everyone will really go off in separate corners, and even less chance to interact. It's all subdivisions..... it's bad enough that the uniforms now keep people from socializing! I've seen even GI's who "won't go hang with the Krauts". ARGH!! It's a costume, you dolts! We're all WW2 enthusiasts here. That sort of mentality only breeds it on the other side, which is probably why this grand idea won't work in the long run, unfortunately.

Sorry, I'm normally an optimist  :-\

I wear an SS and Romanian impression but you'll see me hanging out with the Russians when they are there. Also it depends on the members on the unit as well. If they are a**holes or whatever I try to avoid them since they make a bad impression with behavior/attitude just by itself.
Well I'm still new to this WW2 thing on the "rendesvou" circit we tend to have events after show hours to help promote "iternmiingling", How about we start doing something like that at an event after the general public has gone home have a unit pot luck?
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on October 20, 2007, 01:14:52 am
Fortunately, there are a few units out there that do things together. One of the best examples of this I can think of is 2.Panzer and the 504th PIR at Rockford, IL. Every Saturday night there, they have a big shindig around one camp or another, drink together, and split a hog. Last month, I heard they did a costume contest too! Fun, period stuff like that..... well, as period as you can get without realizing that it's Ami's & Krauts.

But we're all in the HOBBY together, so might as well be serious during the day, and let the hair down at night, eh? (unless of course it's a 24-hr immersion.... then, I can see the need for separation.)
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on October 21, 2007, 06:52:58 pm
Here is my idea. To me maybe its time for parartroopers to be with paratroopers national unit. Pure infantry with infantry ect.
 At many events these units don't get along well. I can see the bad and good in this idea. As a past CW reenactor in Western Brigade,farb units got into the ranks too no matter what we did. Heck WB was almost sued by two female CW reenactors because they were not authentic to WB standards.Wish I remembered more to the story, was a good one.
One National unit will not cover everyone.The 99th is now on our own. What was the point of being part of a National unit, we really didn't get much from it.

 Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on October 21, 2007, 11:17:19 pm
Here is my idea. To me maybe its time for parartroopers to be with paratroopers national unit. Pure infantry with infantry ect.
 At many events these units don't get along well. I can see the bad and good in this idea. As a past CW reenactor in Western Brigade,farb units got into the ranks too no matter what we did. Heck WB was almost sued by two female CW reenactors because they were not authentic to WB standards.Wish I remembered more to the story, was a good one.
One National unit will not cover everyone.The 99th is now on our own. What was the point of being part of a National unit, we really didn't get much from it.

 Pat
well just with my idea of a breakdown by nation I think the same thing would happen, it is a good idea but thier would be the same factor of "staying in ones own camp" even with the unit type of groupings.
I don't think that a national org could comand, and it may not be a bad thing. Now I'm still new to this ww2 part and I don't know alot of the back story (the other group is on it's own as the 30's yr war is not all that big and 90% of the other groups are all on the east cost, and don't want to drive to the midwest for an event even when we have gone out thier not to far for us but to far for them? That I don't understand, but I digress)
So why  do we need one org when most of the groups will stay in one reagan for the most part.

 
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on October 29, 2007, 10:55:56 pm
Meh... you guys are talking about sub-dividing again. UNITY!!

I think the uniforms & units that we're in serve to divide us up as it is, let alone paratroopers/infantry/mess-kit repair/etc. Hell, I do Fallschirmjaeger, but I don't see that much distinction between us & the other branches, and I don't treat them any different, except that they are in different units. Just a few kit differences..... it's not like we're jumping out of planes at these!
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: daniels on November 17, 2007, 01:42:07 am
Just a few kit differences..... it's not like we're jumping out of planes at these!
Well I kinda did, 7 of us in the unit wint through a civ jump school and we jumped out of a plane in flight, in most of our jump uniforms, we could not have the jump jackets on (the upper pockets could have got in the way of the back-up rip cords) But I jumped with the pants and jump boots.

So any way back to the topic at hand.
From what I have seen I don't know if a national organization is needed for the most part most of the groups often "play" in a local area maybe going to an event a state or 2 over on average and maybe a really big event once every other year.
But I could be wrong
 
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: ww2imp on January 29, 2008, 02:13:30 pm
I've been involved in WWII reenactments in Cali since 1986.  In those years I've learned that small groups don't like to be dictated to by foreign or long distance powers.  (Sound familiar?)  There are WAY too many small groups that have incorporated and managed to run things well on their own.  I don't see anything wrong with this format.  Rather than focus on regional or national organizations perhaps the solution is well organized and well executed large regional events that offer professional services such as entertainment, catering, security, etc. 

The GAP is a start, but this event falls short of professionalism in the areas I described.  Don't get me wrong, the CAP is a professional group.  But having security run by a bunch of pre-teens and teenagers does NOTHING for a feeling of professionlism.  There is no accountability on the part of sour-puss participants that ruin things for the rest of the attendees.  A regional event can be very successful if the folks up top catered the event to reenactors as a customer and not as a nuisance.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on January 29, 2008, 05:23:02 pm
I agree a event needs to be for reenactors  catered to reenactors. I'm going back in reenacting history ,my Civil War Days, two great men LeBouf and Warlick came together a did some of the best reenactments ever 130 gettysburg, 135th Gettysburg, full scale Pickett's Charge, Antietem, Wilderness, Culp's Hill. All theses event were for the reenactor, public was last.
 I wish these two would have come over to WW 2 they know how to run a event with 15,000 plus reenactors. The battes normally went very well. One time we fought from 4am to 8pm in one day doing almost every fight at Gettysburg,WW 2 can be done and run the same way if we can have good folks willing to put their all into it like they did.
 I feel so sorry for any CW reenactor today. from 130 to 135th Anniversary battles them was the Golden Years, Today doens't even come close.

      Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: ww2imp on January 29, 2008, 06:00:27 pm
WW 2 can be done and run the same way if we can have good folks willing to put their all into it like they did.
 

I agree.  And I would willing to pay them for the efforts that make it worthwhile for them as long as they deliver a quality experience!  Reenacting out of your trunk just doesn't cut it for me.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: FJR1 on January 30, 2008, 03:49:38 am
I don't think a single national organization would work, even if sub-devided into regional groups.

My Fallschirmj?ger unit is about 80% jump qualified, some military and some civilian jumpers.  I encourage them to jump, but Do Not require it.  No jump, No Kreta sleve ribbon though.
I conduct annual training & jump qualification and try to schedul 2 or 3 jump weekends durring the year.  We invite members of all other units to join us.  Generaly have 12 - 15 out each time, including the occasional wife or girl friend.  We jumped with the 506/101st vets at their annual reunion in Mai 06 - they always have a jump day on Sat.
Both my Fj and the 101st Abn jump in full uniform & equipment, pistols, but no rifles or canteens. 
Here is a photo of the first group in Mar 02.  2 cherries and 2 experienced jumpers.
There is no reason that all FJ/Abn units don't do the same!
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on January 30, 2008, 09:19:32 pm
Sarge, just curious: what FJ unit are you doing & where? I'm in the IN/IL/MI region, 7./FJR.6 (just starting up).
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: FJR1 on January 31, 2008, 03:01:03 am
I'm in I/FJR1/1FJD in Colorado. 
I started FJR1 in M?rz 1981 in the HRS and then when they went to hell in about 87 we became one of the founding units in The WW2 Living History Regiment
When I started FJR1/1FJD George Pettersons 3FJD out of Va. was the only Fallschirmj?ger unit in WW 2 reeenacting.
His and the next 2 FJ units that came along in early/mid 80s - FJR6, Texas and 5FJD in Ga are long gone. 
2 or 3 of my former members now have their own units, all east of the Mississippi.
Dean 

P.S.
I just saw your post on strating 7./FJR6.  Can you email me Mike Schnieders email?  Maby I can get him out here for some of our Battles and if he is doing anything around KC we'll go - it's only 600 mi. - 9 hr drive.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Philonivs Maximvs on January 31, 2008, 04:48:49 pm
Ahh, been in it a while I see! I started with Don Calder's FJR.6 back in 1999, so I guess I'm kinda a late-comer. Btw, he is still doing it (5.Kompanie), and still has a Gruppe out between PA, VA, and the Carolinas.

I'll private message Mike's email..... 9 hours?? haha, I guess we're used to 3-4 hour drives around the Great Lakes area!
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on January 31, 2008, 06:36:34 pm
I really hate to use my past CW reenacting here again but----- We did have regional origanizations and they worked very well. Their could be 20  plus different units that made up a national unit. Here are some. I was part of Western Brigade and USV.
Their was the Fronteir Brigade, National Brigade, Irish Brigade, Black Hats, ect. The rebs were the same. We ran like a army .all of us. Bridage Commanders came tgether to form battles ect. As started 15,000 militray reenactors on the field for 135th Antietam. We had no breakedown always some flaws and egos to deal with  trying to take the glory.
 Here in WW 2 it is possible to make the same ideas only better. Why not a paratrooper Brigade that comes together at 1 or 2 events each year? A 1st Army , 2nd Army ect. Patton's Legion , Rommel's Corps. ect.
 I am willing to put my neck out to better the hobby. I like to do a dogface div. for regular infantry units only. We don't need politics but units willing to join together and act like a Army at a large event or two each year. It's possible I know it is.

 Pat
 
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: FJR1 on April 04, 2008, 03:20:02 am
Pat
I like the idea of a "brigade" of like units - Infantry, Gebirgsj?ger, Fallschirmj?gers, usv.  Unfortunately it probably wouldn't work because some unit who's CO was a Capt would show up with 3 or 4 guys and he would refuse to take orders from the Sgt who had 12 guys there.
I was appointed overall German commander at 2 Battles at Weldon Springs(St Louis) in the 1984/85 time frame.  I formed 3 Kampfgruppe out of the reenactors that showed up - Heer, W-SS u. Fj.  The largest unit commanded their Kg.  It worked both times because I was given "Absolute" authority - the only way I agreed to take the command.  I had the authority to tell a unit to leave the field and go home if they refused to follow orders and cooperate.  I did so with an Fj unit (there were 4 Fj units present) whose CO, a Capt, refused to take orders from the KG commander, a Feldwebel.  When he told his 4 guys what I had said they promptly told him to follow orders - they didn't want to have driven about 1000 mi round trip for nothing.  He came back and said OK he would do it my way.
I had no other trouble with any of the small units present and had no problems the next year.  I even sent letters of thanks for cooperating to all the unit Cdrs after both Battles.  Never been done before or since by anyone else!
That "absolute" authority is the only way it would ever work though for the reasons stated above.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on April 06, 2008, 10:46:00 am
There could be hope of it working in WW 2, MAYBE. I will use me for example. At a event we are hosting in BFE all units who signed the paperwork that they will be attending were told all units will be brigaded together. A unit commander and his staff were picked to lead the event and units for the weekend  good or bad. The majority of reenactors know them and are willing to work as a "real army".                                                                                                           If a unit does show up with a capt, lt and 3 privates they will have to be all privates. If they don't like would have to leave.We wrote it into the event registration.   We did it in CW way back when. I had 2 UNION SACK COATS, 1 for private and one for Color Sgt. If I was needed as Sgt put that on then I was a private if not needed.
  I feel all officers and NCO should carry a private's coat and very basic kit at any reenactment so they will be more privates in the field. Why have 6 Capt  for a squad? If you can buy all the extra junk to carry in the field or look cool at a Living history you can buy a private's field jacket.
 I have always felt Bars and stripes don't mean nothing if the privates arn't there to fight and die.

 Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: twilight_girl on July 10, 2008, 11:50:24 pm
I'm just getting into reenactment, but I'm very excited about it. Anyway, being new to it, I'm not sure about all the problems that are going on, but I have been in other orgs before and I've seen similar sounding things. Here are a few problems as I see it:

- People who don't put in the organization work expect to have an equal say in what happens
- Everyone wants to be the hero
- There is a huge barrier to entry due to cost of the kit.

I think the best solution is that whoever is running the event has final say. And they should assign people roles when they register for the event. That way you can make sure you have the right number of people of the right rank.

As to the barrier to entry, this seems to be a big problem also. People can't try the hobby to see if they like it without dropping about a thousand dollars. Maybe have some civilian roles people could play for example? Or don't be as picky about kit. Sure, if everyone has the exact right thing that's great, but personally I think it's more fun to have more people who are eager to role play than to have only a handful with the exact right thing. Also, I think the rules about who can play what are rather strict. I know someone who wants to be HJ but is too old it seems. I think that as long as people act the role well that's where the fun is.

But hey, that's me and as I said, I'm a newb to all this. :)

XOXO
--Twilight
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on July 11, 2008, 07:40:35 pm
Hello Twlight,
 Welcome to the hobby. You are right many of the same problems happen in all origaniations and work places too.
 It is a investment to be a reenactor and find out its not the hobby for you. When we did Civil War reenacting now over 12 years ago the unit had a lending uniform. The extra musket was mine to use.
 We could do the same for WW 2 , might get folks hooked faster. I will bring this up at our meeting. I know our Ladies Auxillary can lend uniforms. We have only two Ladies left since my ex and I broke up a few weeks ago.

Again welcome to this great hobby. We need more good folks to help keep the memories alive and deeds remembered of the Greatest Generation.

Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Sturmkatze on July 11, 2008, 11:34:55 pm
I'm just getting into reenactment, but I'm very excited about it. Anyway, being new to it, I'm not sure about all the problems that are going on, but I have been in other orgs before and I've seen similar sounding things. Here are a few problems as I see it:

- People who don't put in the organization work expect to have an equal say in what happens
- Everyone wants to be the hero

I think the best solution is that whoever is running the event has final say. And they should assign people roles when they register for the event. That way you can make sure you have the right number of people of the right rank.
Nah, it's a "Walter Mitty" thing... it's not so much the rank, it's the attitudes. I have an article I'm writing about WWI reenacting and motivations -- same kind of thing. You have different types of reenactors, some of which are:

There are just far too many reasons for reenacting to all work together, even if it is a great idea.
Quote
- There is a huge barrier to entry due to cost of the kit.

As to the barrier to entry, this seems to be a big problem also. People can't try the hobby to see if they like it without dropping about a thousand dollars. Maybe have some civilian roles people could play for example?
Alas, nice idea, but not practical... 99% come to reenact the war, not civilian life, although, 1940's life is a fascination to many of us.
Quote
Or don't be as picky about kit. Sure, if everyone has the exact right thing that's great, but personally I think it's more fun to have more people who are eager to role play than to have only a handful with the exact right thing.
NO! Here's the thing, when you start lowering your standards to allow everyone to "play" and all, you diminish it for the others. Why do it right when you see a constant parade of poor impressions? No, you have to hold firm on this. Help them out, but don't lower everyone else to the level of the lessor player.
Quote
Also, I think the rules about who can play what are rather strict. I know someone who wants to be HJ but is too old it seems. I think that as long as people act the role well that's where the fun is.
WHY would he want to be HJ if he's old? We all have to realize that there becomes a point where we can't do something anymore. Same as a black guy wanting to portray a Waffen-SS soldier or ME, wanting to portray a Zulu warrior. And yes, I know there are "round eyes" doing Japanese for WWII and Charlies for Vietnam reenacting. C'est la Vie! And I might as well say it: Women shouldn't portray men! I am SURE it makes me a sexist pig, but I'm not, I just think it's bullshiteeeee to DEMAND everyone has to be allowed to play. This hobby's not Kindergarten -- we pay to be here, we pay for our kit and if some lawyer wishes to tell us we HAVE to do it a certain way, I can take my toys, tell him to F.O.! and go home. It's a hobby. It's also not a happy- happy, joy-joy thing... do it right. (\:=) |||

Quote
But hey, that's me and as I said, I'm a newb to all this. :)
As we all have been-- you'll learn my young Padawan. Some day you will look back and go "Oh yeah, that idiot was right!"  yoy
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on July 12, 2008, 10:32:20 am
Here is a excellent song written by SSgt. Barry Sadler who wrote The Ballad of the Green Beret. It is " Garet Trooper". Everything we have in reenacting is in the Army too. If you get a chance download or buy the CD, its a truthful song.
 I would like to read your article for WW 1. Sounds like a non PC article. The way articles use to be.
 Another I totally agree with no girl soldiers or female reporters on the field either. We know of one who feels she can do it cause of  her so called power in the hobby. I still remember 2 paratroopers holding hands at a reenactment in Bedford ,Pa some years ago. Wish I took a photo of it. ;D

 Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: twilight_girl on July 12, 2008, 09:28:02 pm
Quote
  • The Cap Busters (or we can call 'em "shooters")[/color]
  • The ?Poets?
  • The ?scholars?
  • The "collectors"
  • The ?dress-up king?
  • The ?gun nuts?
  • Tactics "gurus"

Can you go into further detail about these types of players? It's neat. I'm wondering where I fit :)

Quote
Alas, nice idea, but not practical... 99% come to reenact the war, not civilian life, although, 1940's life is a fascination to many of us.

Maybe that's the case because the civilians have been turned away? Maybe if groups were more open to it, more people wanting to play civies would become interested.

Quote
WHY would he want to be HJ if he's old? We all have to realize that there becomes a point where we can't do something anymore. Same as a black guy wanting to portray a Waffen-SS soldier or ME, wanting to portray a Zulu warrior. And yes, I know there are "round eyes" doing Japanese for WWII and Charlies for Vietnam reenacting. C'est la Vie! And I might as well say it: Women shouldn't portray men! I am SURE it makes me a sexist pig, but I'm not, I just think it's bullshiteeeeee to DEMAND everyone has to be allowed to play. This hobby's not Kindergarten -- we pay to be here, we pay for our kit and if some lawyer wishes to tell us we HAVE to do it a certain way, I can take my toys, tell him to F.O.! and go home. It's a hobby. It's also not a happy- happy, joy-joy thing... do it right. (\:=) |||

He's interested in the life and roles of the HJ. Hiking and games are more interesting to him than combat. One of the things that I think is great about roleplay is we can do things there that we can't in real life. Like pretend its the 1940s. Or pretend we are 16. I play a 16 year old BDM girl even though I'm 23 irl. Now, I can pass as I look quite young, but still, if someone if more interested in that, I think it's a shame they don't get to play it.

And no one is DEMANDING that everyone be allowed to play, or calling lawyers, or anything like that. But people are wondering why there isn't more interest in the hobby, and I'm saying that you are turning some people away by having such strict rules about who you are in real life.

Anyway, as I said, just my input from my limited observations.


XOXO,
--Twilight
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on July 13, 2008, 01:18:00 pm
I believe civilians can have a role in reenacting WW 2. As started by me in the past,my CW Days, in Rockton, Ontraio we have a museum village we fought for. A massive judged tactical that has never been done before. There were 10 stations, aid center, lost civilians with" ladies of the night" with them, spies, snipers, cannons ect.
 Civilians were the judges also and worked many of the sets. This could be done for WW 2 if we could find a museum village willing to do a WW 2 weekend.
 When our Ladies Aid Society does set up period items, CD , RED Cross , homefront items it is a good success with the public. They remember alot of the stuff.
 Living History events are a good place to start. Most combat reenactments are not set up for civilians. In the future they could be. If I could set up something for my Bridge at Remagen event I'll do it for 2009. Have to put my thinking cap on.

 Pat
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Michael Dorosh on June 07, 2009, 09:00:02 am
Daniels, the only problem I have with separate org's by nationality/impression is that you will lose overall comradeship at events. After the fighting, everyone will really go off in separate corners, and even less chance to interact. It's all subdivisions..... it's bad enough that the uniforms now keep people from socializing! I've seen even GI's who "won't go hang with the Krauts". ARGH!! It's a costume, you dolts! We're all WW2 enthusiasts here.

The solution to that is to ban the wearing of uniforms outside the reenactment area. I realize you can't really enforce the ban, but make it a rule nonetheless. Certainly, no one should be wearing quote "Nazi" unquote regalia in public places. Print up unit t-shirts, or even better, t-shirts or polo shirts with the logo of the historical/reenactment society and encourage members to change into civilian clothes after events. In fact, give the shirts away - have it be part of the membership fee. Announce a meeting place for post-event refreshments and state the dress code - jeans and society t-shirts. It would promote the togetherness you're looking for.

I used to be big on masquerading around in period uniform too, but I'm now of a mixed mind as I get older and I wonder if it wasn't a bit of insecurity on our part. If you're booting around a shopping mall or a restaurant in uniform, I think the basic motivation is self-interest at that point - i.e. "look at us."

I did an event on the west coast with the NWHA that was a lot of fun; the post-event gathering was well attended by Allied guys. We were all in uniform - granted, sometimes it's easier just to slip away in uniform without going through the hassle of changing. But I was impressed that the Germans, who had no desire to offend anyone, all changed completely into civilian clothes. They didn't just take the tunics off and walk around in pants and suspenders, the got right down into jeans - and then came and palled around with their buddies in the Allied units.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Sturmkatze on June 10, 2009, 10:53:12 pm
I disagree. I don't go to these things to be in modern clothes. I also don't go to be around the public... in fact I try to avoid anything reeking of a public "battle."

My beef is w/ the GI's (and some Germans) who rip off their uniforms as soon as the battl eis over and either head out for home or want to go drink "Buttwiper" out of aluminum cans or watch John Wayne movies, etc. It's like they're ashamed of the uniform. Most Germans on the other hand (and Brits and Sovs) tend to stay in their kit and have a good time socializing.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: battlebaby4 on June 14, 2009, 09:34:07 am
In our unit everyone stays in period attire, not costume. Sorry a costume is for a Halloween Party. We are reenactors of a given era. We wear uniforms or period attire.
 As for our members everyone stays in uniform till the bitter end of the event. To change into your "Death Metal Band T-shirt" with wal-mart jeans and sneakers that cost more then a pair of boots you ruin the weekend of being back in time for a short period of time. Theses people wore theses uniforms for years you can do it for a weekend.
 As for wearing your uniform to the store. Who cares. People in modern clothes get more looks then us . Trust me I work in a hospital I see how people dress. We all are far better.

 Pat Tarasovitch
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: cco23i on June 17, 2009, 08:47:05 pm
This is the way I see it.  After reenacting for over 25 years I have noticed many things.  As was stated before there are the ones who rip off their uniforms and put civies on as soon as they can.  As for me and my compadres, we wear UNIFORMS NOT COSTUMES, heck, many of the uniforms reproduced today you could be transported back to 43 and fit right in.  I know that after hours if any of us have libations they are put into a canteen cup or period container so we can stay as period as possibl.  As for wearing your uniform to a store either prior to or after an event, DO IT!  Heck, try wearing a civil war uniform including heel plate into a store and be "skating" aroun the store gathering supplies.  Remeber all, many of us do this to honor the veterans and to educate, I know the public understands more than many think.


Scott
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: Michael Dorosh on June 22, 2009, 09:27:16 pm
Every one of you has slightly missed the point I was trying to make, so I'll try again. It's a simple point - Time and place.

If you're at the event, then yes, remain in uniform, be proud, and live in the moment preferably as a unit. Take refreshments as a unit - set up a unit canteen - hell, use it as a fund-raising device for the unit; sell period refreshments, or if that is not palatable, put modern soft drinks, etc., into period containers. I think that is acceptable. You don't need to torture people by expecting them to live on German black bread, sausage and warm water out of aluminum containers for two days straight - not only would it be a disincentive to participating, but it would actually be hazardous to their health. If you don't have an interest in the living history aspects of the hobby, then don't hang around ruining it for those that do; leave the area before changing out of uniform.

I certainly wasn't advocating stripping out of uniform WHILE AT THE EVENT. I meant that if you're going to leave the confines of the event area, then that is the time to get all the way out of uniform. It's not a costume. Modern militaries have regulations about being seen in public in uniform - you're not allowed to wear field dress to the local mall or bar after being in the field for an exercise, for example, all covered in mud and dirt - you go home and strip out of your grungy clothes first. So why should pretend soldiers presume that they should be seen that way? Pat says "we all are far better". Sure, then prove it. Have the pride and discipline to know when to wear the uniform, and when not to. Again - it's a uniform, not a costume.
Title: Re: Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?
Post by: cco23i on June 26, 2009, 06:00:45 pm
I understand what you are saying.  When we go to events we have our work uniform, dress uniform and period civilian attire to change into if we wish.  In our case going to a resteraunt smelling like avgas, hydraulic fluid and oil is a bad thing.  That's why we have period civilian clothes.

Scott