Do we need to return to ONE National WWII Organization?

[daniels]

Here is my idea. To me maybe its time for parartroopers to be with paratroopers national unit. Pure infantry with infantry ect.
 At many events these units don't get along well. I can see the bad and good in this idea. As a past CW reenactor in Western Brigade,farb units got into the ranks too no matter what we did. Heck WB was almost sued by two female CW reenactors because they were not authentic to WB standards.Wish I remembered more to the story, was a good one.
One National unit will not cover everyone.The 99th is now on our own. What was the point of being part of a National unit, we really didn't get much from it.

 Pat

well just with my idea of a breakdown by nation I think the same thing would happen, it is a good idea but thier would be the same factor of "staying in ones own camp" even with the unit type of groupings.
I don't think that a national org could comand, and it may not be a bad thing. Now I'm still new to this ww2 part and I don't know alot of the back story (the other group is on it's own as the 30's yr war is not all that big and 90% of the other groups are all on the east cost, and don't want to drive to the midwest for an event even when we have gone out thier not to far for us but to far for them? That I don't understand, but I digress)
So why  do we need one org when most of the groups will stay in one reagan for the most part.

 

[Philonivs Maximvs]

Meh... you guys are talking about sub-dividing again. UNITY!!

I think the uniforms & units that we're in serve to divide us up as it is, let alone paratroopers/infantry/mess-kit repair/etc. Hell, I do Fallschirmjaeger, but I don't see that much distinction between us & the other branches, and I don't treat them any different, except that they are in different units. Just a few kit differences..... it's not like we're jumping out of planes at these!

[daniels]

Just a few kit differences..... it's not like we're jumping out of planes at these!

Well I kinda did, 7 of us in the unit wint through a civ jump school and we jumped out of a plane in flight, in most of our jump uniforms, we could not have the jump jackets on (the upper pockets could have got in the way of the back-up rip cords) But I jumped with the pants and jump boots.

So any way back to the topic at hand.
From what I have seen I don't know if a national organization is needed for the most part most of the groups often "play" in a local area maybe going to an event a state or 2 over on average and maybe a really big event once every other year.
But I could be wrong
 

[ww2imp]

I've been involved in WWII reenactments in Cali since 1986.  In those years I've learned that small groups don't like to be dictated to by foreign or long distance powers.  (Sound familiar?)  There are WAY too many small groups that have incorporated and managed to run things well on their own.  I don't see anything wrong with this format.  Rather than focus on regional or national organizations perhaps the solution is well organized and well executed large regional events that offer professional services such as entertainment, catering, security, etc. 

The GAP is a start, but this event falls short of professionalism in the areas I described.  Don't get me wrong, the CAP is a professional group.  But having security run by a bunch of pre-teens and teenagers does NOTHING for a feeling of professionlism.  There is no accountability on the part of sour-puss participants that ruin things for the rest of the attendees.  A regional event can be very successful if the folks up top catered the event to reenactors as a customer and not as a nuisance.

[battlebaby4]

I agree a event needs to be for reenactors  catered to reenactors. I'm going back in reenacting history ,my Civil War Days, two great men LeBouf and Warlick came together a did some of the best reenactments ever 130 gettysburg, 135th Gettysburg, full scale Pickett's Charge, Antietem, Wilderness, Culp's Hill. All theses event were for the reenactor, public was last.
 I wish these two would have come over to WW 2 they know how to run a event with 15,000 plus reenactors. The battes normally went very well. One time we fought from 4am to 8pm in one day doing almost every fight at Gettysburg,WW 2 can be done and run the same way if we can have good folks willing to put their all into it like they did.
 I feel so sorry for any CW reenactor today. from 130 to 135th Anniversary battles them was the Golden Years, Today doens't even come close.

      Pat

[ww2imp]

WW 2 can be done and run the same way if we can have good folks willing to put their all into it like they did.
 

I agree.  And I would willing to pay them for the efforts that make it worthwhile for them as long as they deliver a quality experience!  Reenacting out of your trunk just doesn't cut it for me.

[FJR1]

I don't think a single national organization would work, even if sub-devided into regional groups.

My Fallschirmj?ger unit is about 80% jump qualified, some military and some civilian jumpers.  I encourage them to jump, but Do Not require it.  No jump, No Kreta sleve ribbon though.
I conduct annual training & jump qualification and try to schedul 2 or 3 jump weekends durring the year.  We invite members of all other units to join us.  Generaly have 12 - 15 out each time, including the occasional wife or girl friend.  We jumped with the 506/101st vets at their annual reunion in Mai 06 - they always have a jump day on Sat.
Both my Fj and the 101st Abn jump in full uniform & equipment, pistols, but no rifles or canteens. 
Here is a photo of the first group in Mar 02.  2 cherries and 2 experienced jumpers.
There is no reason that all FJ/Abn units don't do the same!

[Philonivs Maximvs]

Sarge, just curious: what FJ unit are you doing & where? I'm in the IN/IL/MI region, 7./FJR.6 (just starting up).

[FJR1]

I'm in I/FJR1/1FJD in Colorado. 
I started FJR1 in M?rz 1981 in the HRS and then when they went to hell in about 87 we became one of the founding units in The WW2 Living History Regiment. 
When I started FJR1/1FJD George Pettersons 3FJD out of Va. was the only Fallschirmj?ger unit in WW 2 reeenacting.
His and the next 2 FJ units that came along in early/mid 80s - FJR6, Texas and 5FJD in Ga are long gone. 
2 or 3 of my former members now have their own units, all east of the Mississippi.
Dean 

P.S.
I just saw your post on strating 7./FJR6.  Can you email me Mike Schnieders email?  Maby I can get him out here for some of our Battles and if he is doing anything around KC we'll go - it's only 600 mi. - 9 hr drive.

[Philonivs Maximvs]

Ahh, been in it a while I see! I started with Don Calder's FJR.6 back in 1999, so I guess I'm kinda a late-comer. Btw, he is still doing it (5.Kompanie), and still has a Gruppe out between PA, VA, and the Carolinas.

I'll private message Mike's email..... 9 hours?? haha, I guess we're used to 3-4 hour drives around the Great Lakes area!

[battlebaby4]

I really hate to use my past CW reenacting here again but----- We did have regional origanizations and they worked very well. Their could be 20  plus different units that made up a national unit. Here are some. I was part of Western Brigade and USV.
Their was the Fronteir Brigade, National Brigade, Irish Brigade, Black Hats, ect. The rebs were the same. We ran like a army .all of us. Bridage Commanders came tgether to form battles ect. As started 15,000 militray reenactors on the field for 135th Antietam. We had no breakedown always some flaws and egos to deal with  trying to take the glory.
 Here in WW 2 it is possible to make the same ideas only better. Why not a paratrooper Brigade that comes together at 1 or 2 events each year? A 1st Army , 2nd Army ect. Patton's Legion , Rommel's Corps. ect.
 I am willing to put my neck out to better the hobby. I like to do a dogface div. for regular infantry units only. We don't need politics but units willing to join together and act like a Army at a large event or two each year. It's possible I know it is.

 Pat
 

[FJR1]

Pat
I like the idea of a "brigade" of like units - Infantry, Gebirgsj?ger, Fallschirmj?gers, usv.  Unfortunately it probably wouldn't work because some unit who's CO was a Capt would show up with 3 or 4 guys and he would refuse to take orders from the Sgt who had 12 guys there.
I was appointed overall German commander at 2 Battles at Weldon Springs(St Louis) in the 1984/85 time frame.  I formed 3 Kampfgruppe out of the reenactors that showed up - Heer, W-SS u. Fj.  The largest unit commanded their Kg.  It worked both times because I was given "Absolute" authority - the only way I agreed to take the command.  I had the authority to tell a unit to leave the field and go home if they refused to follow orders and cooperate.  I did so with an Fj unit (there were 4 Fj units present) whose CO, a Capt, refused to take orders from the KG commander, a Feldwebel.  When he told his 4 guys what I had said they promptly told him to follow orders - they didn't want to have driven about 1000 mi round trip for nothing.  He came back and said OK he would do it my way.
I had no other trouble with any of the small units present and had no problems the next year.  I even sent letters of thanks for cooperating to all the unit Cdrs after both Battles.  Never been done before or since by anyone else!
That "absolute" authority is the only way it would ever work though for the reasons stated above.

[battlebaby4]

There could be hope of it working in WW 2, MAYBE. I will use me for example. At a event we are hosting in BFE all units who signed the paperwork that they will be attending were told all units will be brigaded together. A unit commander and his staff were picked to lead the event and units for the weekend  good or bad. The majority of reenactors know them and are willing to work as a "real army".                                                                                                           If a unit does show up with a capt, lt and 3 privates they will have to be all privates. If they don't like would have to leave.We wrote it into the event registration.   We did it in CW way back when. I had 2 UNION SACK COATS, 1 for private and one for Color Sgt. If I was needed as Sgt put that on then I was a private if not needed.
  I feel all officers and NCO should carry a private's coat and very basic kit at any reenactment so they will be more privates in the field. Why have 6 Capt  for a squad? If you can buy all the extra junk to carry in the field or look cool at a Living history you can buy a private's field jacket.
 I have always felt Bars and stripes don't mean nothing if the privates arn't there to fight and die.

 Pat

[twilight_girl]

I'm just getting into reenactment, but I'm very excited about it. Anyway, being new to it, I'm not sure about all the problems that are going on, but I have been in other orgs before and I've seen similar sounding things. Here are a few problems as I see it:

- People who don't put in the organization work expect to have an equal say in what happens
- Everyone wants to be the hero
- There is a huge barrier to entry due to cost of the kit.

I think the best solution is that whoever is running the event has final say. And they should assign people roles when they register for the event. That way you can make sure you have the right number of people of the right rank.

As to the barrier to entry, this seems to be a big problem also. People can't try the hobby to see if they like it without dropping about a thousand dollars. Maybe have some civilian roles people could play for example? Or don't be as picky about kit. Sure, if everyone has the exact right thing that's great, but personally I think it's more fun to have more people who are eager to role play than to have only a handful with the exact right thing. Also, I think the rules about who can play what are rather strict. I know someone who wants to be HJ but is too old it seems. I think that as long as people act the role well that's where the fun is.

But hey, that's me and as I said, I'm a newb to all this.

XOXO
--Twilight

[battlebaby4]

Hello Twlight,
 Welcome to the hobby. You are right many of the same problems happen in all origaniations and work places too.
 It is a investment to be a reenactor and find out its not the hobby for you. When we did Civil War reenacting now over 12 years ago the unit had a lending uniform. The extra musket was mine to use.
 We could do the same for WW 2 , might get folks hooked faster. I will bring this up at our meeting. I know our Ladies Auxillary can lend uniforms. We have only two Ladies left since my ex and I broke up a few weeks ago.

Again welcome to this great hobby. We need more good folks to help keep the memories alive and deeds remembered of the Greatest Generation.

Pat