Behavior at Events

[Antonescu]

HeinzVarnisher

How did you choose this name? Weird because I know someone (only a handful of people actually know ) who for the last 5 years has used Heinz Varner for his impression and he too is in NJ. 

[HeinzVarnisher]

My father used to work with a guy, named Heinz Stroh.  He was in the German army in WWII.  The guys at the shop used to call him Heinz Varnisher because one day, he spilled a can of varnish on the shop floor, or so Im told.  Not sure if that is the real reason, just everyone called him Hienz Varnisher. 

I just picked his name because I couldn't think of anything esle to use.

I am thinking of doing axis, probably regular german army.  I have to see, depends of my finances.  Going through a rough financial time.  I have some stuff that I have picked up through the years, but I am not ready to take part yet.  Once I wrap things up in my current situation, I will most likely have to move, and will be poor for some years to come.  So, at this point, its all just up in the air.

See you in a week or so, off to a neaded vacation, hope the fish are biting.

[Antonescu]

HeinzVarnisher

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Thanks

[Antonescu]

Ok, well maybe for the Axis side this might be more doable. Units that feel the same could create KG's for events. This way it is seen by others that the units/individuals who do this type of behavior are not going to be tolerated. A bundle of sticks is stronger than one.

[Chris Pittman]

I've been reenacting in the Northeast since 1999. I've seen all the questionable behavior mentioned in this thread, and a lot more. In none of these incidents have I ever seen the possibility that the police might be called. With rare exceptions, every reenactor I see at events (even the intoxicated people) acts like an adult and understands that he is making a choice either to take part in these activities, or to seek different company elsewhere. I don't think there is anything new going on here to warrant this type of discussion. It seems to me that drunkenness (and all the rowdiness and ungentlemanly behavior that goes with it) has been a fact of life in this hobby for a long time. It seems like the major concern being expressed here is that we might lose the ability to have events at certain places if some of this behavior came to the attention of the parties in charge of these sites. I doubt that that might happen. Money talks... It seems to me that if something like underage drinking came to the attention of these authorities, it would most likely be sufficient to expel the guilty unit. I mean, if an event site is comfortable with having people wearing Nazi uniforms and vendors selling racist propaganda, one would think that they might be a bit lenient with some other social norms as well. Some of the people in units that might be involved in this behavior might be really good, quality reenactors, especially in large units that might have all kinds of people. I think it is possible that after some of the things that have happened at events, the units involved may have disciplined their own people quietly, which seems fitting- certainly better than broadcasting rumors about this behavior, that might attract negative attention. I don't think event organisers WANT to ban such units because they may not percieve the allegations as serious or they may not think it is a big deal. Lots of rumors out there, I suppose proof could be provided- but has there ever been a formal complaint filed? I think not. No criminal charges, nothing really serious. I can sympathise with the people who want to curb this behavior. I can understand those who are concerned about the effect this may have on underage people and the potential negative consequences that could perhaps become a reality (though this possibility seems, to me, extremely remote). However, I don't feel like making all these allegations public is a good idea. If something bad happens, and no one finds out about it, how is it a good idea to say "Everyone should know, something bad happened, and no one found out, but what if the bad thing happens again, and someone finds out?" Reenactors who do not want to attend events where this type of thing takes place should work to put together events with other like-minded reenacting units. I am seeing a trend towards smaller, invitation-only events with an emphasis on first person impressions and authenticity, and I think this is a great thing. At the same time, I do enjoy tearing it up at Saturday night parties at events from time to time, most reenactors do. I'm not endorsing illegal activities at events, nor do I condemn anybody. Large-scale events will always have a wide variety of people and some of them are sure to be drunk. This goes for Germans, GIs, Commonwealth troops, and Russians too. It is a fact of life, I fear. And I am OK with that.

[Antonescu]

Chris,

See your points in there. However, the illegal stuff has happened since we've all seen the behavior. When I got into the hobby 6 years ago from a 14 year leave from reenacting, the units all seemed to have things under control. Now it appears that the quality units (which are becoming rarer at events) have taken control of the situation in their units while others have looked the other way.

You are correct on units getting together for smaller invite-only events. Some are discussing other things as well to enhance the experience. The large events really are for the money now and thus have lost that "feeling". The only events that aren't really large are East Front and for once I would like to see that especially at Haydenville.

As for bad influences on minors, I can say first-hand that it is a big problem. See it every school year thanks to gangs, irresponsible parents, etc. Think that adults would have enough since to keep it to a minimum if they have minors in their units. They learn the the right things by people around them.

No one said not to drink. Most people will drink Saturday (I've drank with members of your unit) and they drink to their point of tolerance. I go to the point that I am feeling nice and happy then no more. Like you said, from time to time but there are some that do it at every event beyond a reasonable time and level of intoxication. 

Partied my ass off in college and looking back realized that though I had fun at the time, the stupidity was embarassing and it really wasn't all that great actually.

[Antonescu]

Well it seems that a lot has happened since this last post. Can someone explain to me what has happened to the hobby?

1) intoxicated guards with fixed bayonets
2) AH bust on table with yarmulke on it
3) intoxicated individuals shooting MG's off in buildings late at night/very early in the morning
4) units dropping water balloons down chimneys
5) units having members being investigated by the Feds on weapons purchased at events

No one else wants to say anything except on the down-low. So putting these out there so it can hopefully be discussed in the open. Not mentioning units is the key so remember that. Just focus on the incidents

[battlebaby4]

Wow theses units and adults are going crazy! I must have missed this event to be shure.
 Again our hobby is under watch by many,many people who want it banned. Congress has tried to make you return your militray vehicles and even gear to a point sometime ago. The bill failed.
 As started before units who have problems like this should be taken out of the hobby. We can't afford a CNN story on crazy reenactors doing stuff like this. When someone gets hurt or killed we are done.
 I do not wish to invite units like this to any event that I host here in PA.

 Pat

[Sturmkatze]

It's more than behavior at events... people are just acting like a-holes all over the hobby. The Internet forums have become especially bad -- I'm not on that many as I just don't have time. My e-mail lists don't have the trouble, but we stomp on people for acting like idiots. That and the e-mail lists have declined in use over the last few years Or is it I dunno...

And the different Forums don't help by shutting people down -- my feeling is that on a board (where you have to choose to read something) who cares? As long as it doesn't get violent, turn into just a spastic flame-fest or idiots start using racial crap, I don't care. Oh, and modern politics are kind of a bad idea. Yeah, a comment here and there, but fights and arguments aren't why people are here -- 'tis why we have an "off-topic" section (visible only to members of the Forums).

One last thing... it's kind of hard to comment on how reenacting is in a certain country if you don't live there or go to events there. I certainly wouldn't be commenting on the state of the hobby in Germany or some place unless I was familiar with conditions there... some from other countries seem to think they know what's right for the US and reenactors here. Hell, stuff differs BY REGION here, so it's hard to really get a handle on things unless you're "feet on the ground" in a place.
 

[Antonescu]

Well I talked to an individual in the northeast about an event. Told me that they lost the site. When I inquired why (since it was close to me) he told me that a group of reenactors were intoxicated and spray painted swastikas on a barn wall (inside). The landowner was not happy and will not allow an event there. Why would you do such a thing to someone else's property? On top of that, apparently the landowner was Jewish. What the hell was going on in those individuals minds at the time?

[battlebaby4]

Again WOW I agree what is going on here. Our squad formed over 9 years ago to get away from these same "problem childern" in Civil War. Plus add in politics  and it was time to head into the sunset.
 I hate to say over the last few years maybe alot of them came to the 1940's. I feel we'll have to do something to repair the damage to the hobby.

 Pat

[Sturmkatze]

Again WOW I agree what is going on here. Our squad formed over 9 years ago to get away from of same "problem children" in Civil War. Plus add in politics was time to head into the sunset.
 I hate to say over the last few year maybe a lot of them came to the 1940's. I feel we'll have to do something to repair the damage to the hobby.

I've thought that a lot for the last, say 10 years. CW people get burnt on their time period and come to another (WWI or WWII) and think it operates the same way. Alas, it doesn't, or didn't... it seems that some things are changing for the worse. thievery seems to be up. Chicken shite politics seems up a bit. I dunno.

I hear about units getting drunk and doing ignorant shite at events --if so, THEY need to be made to pay. Damage property, unit pays or people get banned. It seems a unit has been (or is being now) banned from FIG for having a bust of Adolf Hitler on a desk in their Stube (office)... as the unit is an W-SS one, I'd normally say "So what, period correct item..." but it seems these guys went and put a yarmulke on it, in a place where the PUBLIC could see this D'OH! I mean really, it's DAMNED hard to get banned from FIG... hell, I've seen guys who's impressions make me cringe get allowed there. It really does take a lot to get the boot there. Dave Shaw wants his money by Gawd. I was told there was a big thread on this at the WW2 Proboards Forum... it seems a moderator there, willy-nilly just deleted it -- whoops! As long as people are talking in a reasonable manner and not threatening others, who cares. Discussion is good for the hobby. Attacks aren't though.

There has always been drinking at events... Hell, at my first WWII event, I got wasted-drunk (thanks to Butch Fogle's moonshine ) and haven't done so since (hangovers hurt to much now). Anyway, I remember a bunch of us "Sieg-Heiling" in the barracks square... nowadays, I am sure this would not go over so well. It was the early 90's then. I can remember other things too... Oh well, it's WWII... during the real war, Germans did things that piss off Allies -- so do we Things are a bit toned down now. However, we NEVER damaged barracks or property... That's a change and needs to be dealt with.

[Chris Pittman]

I wonder if there is any truth behind the story of the reenactors painting swastikas at a site. I reenact in New England and there were some rumors going around about swastikas being painted on buildings at a particular event. And I can say with certainty, that it never happened. There were a few reenactments each year in Kingston, MA at a site that is now off-limits to the hobby. Part of the site was an abandoned cement factory and there were some abanoned sheds and outbuildings there. My unit took part in an event there last year, there was a lot of spray-painted graffiti of all kinds on these abandoned buildings including swastikas and SS runes (not painted by reenactors, bonehead kids probably). Some of the guys in my group were out there after the battle spray-painting over some of that graffiti, they also spray-painted our unit emblem out there. The land owner was not happy with the Nazi graffiti but that had nothing to do with the reenactors, this was a site in suburban Massachusetts and not in the middle of nowhere, after all. I certainly agree that reenactors should not be spray painting anything at any site and we apologized for the unit emblem, certainly. There are some who would spread wild claims and rumors about these events (with a variety of motivations), these are not true. The person who coordinated access to the site (an area reenactor and police officer) said in response to some of the finger-pointing, "No one unit is was responsible. I did not say any unit but person(s) unknown.  The actions of one are the actions of all.  I know there was some there already." It is always the same people spreading these rumors, it occurs to me.

[Antonescu]

Chris,

Yes, it seems that there are rumors about units going around. The one that you described and clarified was told to another moderator by a member of 3rd Pz (II do not know who it was personally). The moderator said he didn't/wouldn't say what unit but those were what were told to him. If teens are doing this then it is really a shame since they do not understand the meaning behind it (I think they do) and just want to start something.

Now another one is seeming to have more truth. The Federation is contacting people after a member of their staff saw something in one of the units barracks that didn't sit too well with them. They are contacing individuals for a thorough investigation. The unit has already been banned from Gap II (that is what I have been told along with others on the forum), Newville WWII events and possibly another PA event (that coming from the Event Coordinators). That is what Marsh is talking about.

Agree, units that do stupid should be shunned by participants. Banning will work in some areas of the country but as you stressed in others the lack of units makes it difficult. To limit oneself to certain events seems out of the question due to the lack of events now in the area. I would love to come back up there since I know what events you guys run. In fact would love to come to Ft. Adams in RI in November since I will be in Pelham, NY close to I-95 and not the mess in NYC. I do come up to Haydenville and have been to Tolland twice. Quality events with quality units will get me there for sure.