A question for YOU on WWII

[Sturmkatze]

Here we go: WHY is everyone afraid to do an alternate impression. By this I mean Romanian, Hungarian, Finnish, French, Japanese, Belgian, Polish or Italian. Why? They were there dammit! And please don't give me the same old STUPID BS about French or Italian troops being bad soldiers -- they were damn good soldiers when they had GOOD leaders. Alas, the French and Italians were cursed w/ some really crappy leadership -- that doesn't mean they were bad soldiers -- Hell, the US has had bad leadership before, does that mean our soldiers were ad then? No, it doesn't. So, grow up, broaden your mind -- try something new.

Hey, how come there is such a low interest for these impressions? Schipperfabrik.com is going to make Romanian uniforms IF he gets 5 orders. He's already selling Hungarian, Polish, Belgian and French WWII stuff. Why not give his site a look. Think it over, wouldn't it be neat to do something different?

Wouldn't it be neat to have something besides the same old crap? "Loook, ahms is an uhleeet AMAIRICUN PARYTROOOPER OF THE 101st AIRBORNE!" Or "A'hm is an uhleeet Waffen Ess Ess troooper." Ack! There was more to the war than Germans, Amis, Brits and Soviets. Besides, if we can ever really get the Eastern Front to take off like it should (because it's more fun and people actually TAKE HITS), you might want to do something different.

Come on kiddies, let's broaden our minds a bit. Over the next couple of weeks, we're going to be talking of ways to improve WWII -- things like alternate impressions, the over representation of eleite troops, the need for more saftey and less cowboyism, and, are vehicles necessary?

Please, take the time to get involved in these discussions.
Best, Marsh

[Antonescu]

Yep, think it is good to get things moving along in the other nations involved in the war. Tired of going against mostly AB at events and have only attended two East Front events. The mid-atlantic region would be an awesome place to have them and thinking of doing one next fall in WV. There are those of us out there who have Russian or other impressions just sitting in storage. Why get them if you aren't going to use them?

[draco63701]

I have to agree here too.  It would be good to see more of the other countries that were involved in the war be represented at the various events.  Personally speaking, the main reason I do the impression that I am is not from a desire to do elite, but from wanting to represent more of the foreign volunteer side of the German units.  I will say that it would be good to see more of the other countries involved though.  Had thought about doing Belgium sometime, but right now it's not financialy feasible.

[Sturmkatze]

And give Rob's Romanian unit a look, they're thet 9th Infantry, 34th regiment of the Royal Romanian Army. What a neat website!    I have a German kit and pretty much most of a Soviet one, but... looking at this, I think someday I WOULD really like to put toether a Romanian kit. I know John Wayne never ran up the beach in a Romanian uniform, but it IS cool!

This all could really help expand out hobby in a good way. I've looked at some Civil War forums and they talk of people quitting CW and "goin' over to WWII." like that's a BAD THING!? :-0 Perhaps it's because WWII has so much more to offer. I know for  afact, Eastern Front is so much better -- we just need to pull it together.

[historymuseum2000]

WHAT!!! The war didn't consist of the US and Germany??? OH yeah, it was a WORLD war. Lots of other countries involved and the East Front is highly overlooked. Just look at the sheer numbers involved in men material and miles. It was not a " Good War" by any means for all involved and brought out the worst.

My only thought would be to talk  more into doing Soviet impressions, there needs to be more. It seems like only the real military history folks are the ones really interested in the Russian front away from all things BoBish and AHLEEEET. We should have hordes of Ivans. If the national WWII reenacting organization as fantasied on the WH list comes into being, all new members should have to spend their first year as Ivans to bolster the ranks! Conscript 'em!

I have always wanted to do an Ost Front event, since my main interest is in LwFD's. This is where they were created and sacrificed. It would be cool to do a Leningrad front event and do the 1. LwFD or the 4. LwFD chasing the Partisians around the swamps. I could see doing either of these scenarios at the Newville site, that, would be a blast.

However, I would be wiling to do a Russian impression also, that is a nice alternative impression. As to Axis Ost Front allies the Romanians would be interesting, something completely different. Also the Italians, I don't think many think about the Italians on the Russian  front.

 

Hmmm... now to go look at Rob's site and the Schipper page.....

Lee

[Sturmkatze]

Strangley, more Germans than Amis convert over to Soviet. I was at a dinner once after a WWII event and this Ami get's up (might have already changed into his t-hirt and jeans too, I forget) and said (no shite) "I would wear an SS uniform before I would ever put on a communist one." Alas, this seems ot be the consensus amongst American reenactors :-( 

We need to get past this kind of crap. Expand your mind, broaden your horizons. Italian would be cool. Just grow beyond the Bands of Bozos and Uberman mentalities.

[Antonescu]

I know about the Amis and Russian kits. There are a few out there who do have them but they do not use them or haven't in a couple of years.

I can say that if I did Russian my wife would flip due to living under communism for 20 years and her grandfather spending 5 years in a political prison (put there by the Russians in Romania). Do feel that the good reenactors should get out there and add Russian but also at least a small portion doing Romanian or Italian. Already know someone in RI who has Hungarian (and he also had the uniform Schipper used). Doing Romanian would allow you to participate at all East Front events since they fought with and against the Germans. Yes, the Italians were on the Ostfront. Who do you think the Germans used to seperate the Romanians and Hungarians at Stalingrad.

East Front events need to come out. Like I said, getting tired of mostly AB and Normandy style events. Common, even the real BoB's would tell you that the proportion right now in the hobby is incorrect. Wait till the Pacific series comes out then see who does what?

[Philonivs Maximvs]

Well, you can't hold a gun to peoples' heads... I don't think that even a mandate from a national organization would work to "make" people do Soviet. It's a nice thought though! hehe

I am lucky to have such a great Soviet unit to be part of. The commander and the core members are mostly here in Indianapolis or other parts of IN, and they are committed 150% to doing it right. That's part of the equation.... you need leadership in these units elsewhere that will foster authentic thinking. For a long time, no one seemed to take the Soviet impression seriously. Dan Welch was a pioneer in this, and yes he sold a lot of so-so post-war items just to keep it cheap enough to get people to do it, but he's also been instrumental in turning out quality items to replace them. Then Ostfront. Then Front of Russia... etc. These are cool times to start doing it!

But Marsh, I think we need to get people to at least do Soviet first before we start pushing people to do the other impressions. Hey, if someone can do it all, great, but most of us have limited budgets (and don't work for vendors anymore!), and quite frankly it's better for someone to focus on one thing at a time to get it right. After I start seeing 2:1 Soviets to Germans, I'd be happy to promote doing Romanian, Polish, etc. (esp Polish!)

[Philonivs Maximvs]

And as far as UHLEET airborne goes, well, we Fallschirmjaegers fall into that category! But you don't see droves of us out there.... YET. Make a cool movie featuring Mark Wahlberg as an FJ or something, and it's all over...... 

But them big bad 101st troopers don't bother me much anymore... I tend to ignore them 

[dbloge]

i chose to do a german impression for a few reasons; i must say they have the coolest equipment and  it would be challenging....ie. the language, equipment.....i have relatives that served and died in the wehrmacht...........being a vet i dont think i could do a US impression.........it would be boring......... unless it was a unit full of real vets...........im thinking possibly of doing a russian impression in the future.........where im at geographically is a wwii deadzone--northern AL.......so it makes ANY reenacting very difficult now

[atlanticwallblanks]

I think a lot of it comes down to perception.

French - they are the butt of most jokes about losing all wars

Italy - Same

Poland - Same

Russian - Many still have the cold war in their minds and it even took me a while to don the uniform. Recent events from their idiot leader don't help.  We did Russian for a year. When the local Russian units treated us like crap I threw it in the trash as with the rest of the unit.  Bought a whole new set recently and trashed it again.  Rabid activism on the part of a small number of these reenactors turned me off to it for good.  I am not the only one to see this I am sure.

As for the Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian impressions, they are not what the cool kids are doing so I don't ever see them taking off.  Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more of these units, but it isn't the "in" thing.

I would do G.I., but can't find a leg unit anywhere close.  I don't have any desire to be a paratrooper.  Nothing against the guys who do, it just isn't what I want to do.

Japanese - There is still a hatred towards them that I don't think many can get over.  It does seam to be gaining a bit of ground though. 

Belgian, how long did that last? 15 minutes? Not much point.

French Foreign Legion seams to be taking off.   As well as Maquie to a small degree.

Finnish, hell, I would do Finnish in a heartbeat.

I would like to see more Brit and Canadian units.  The few out there seam pretty decent.

Just my 2 cents.

Robb

[Sturmkatze]

Russian - Many still have the cold war in their minds and it even took me a while to don the uniform. Recent events from their idiot leader don't help.  We did Russian for a year. When the local Russian units treated us like crap I threw it in the trash as with the rest of the unit.  Bought a whole new set recently and trashed it again.  Rabid activism on the part of a small number of these reenactors turned me off to it for good.  I am not the only one to see this I am sure.

I'm sure of it too. People can just be wieners. BTW, next time you're gonna trash your kit, send it to ME. I'll give it a good home 

As for the Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian impressions, they are not what the cool kids are doing so I don't ever see them taking off.  Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more of these units, but it isn't the "in" thing.

Who says the "cool kids" are cool?

[Oskar_2ndChev]

One of the big problems, IMHO, is finding adequate sources for uniforms, equipment and weapons. Italian looks interesting but it seems that there's only one outfit that makes the uniforms and from what I understand, they do not have the best reputation. Also, there's the usual "Bandwagon of Brothers/Saving Ryan's Privates" crowd- jeeze, can't they give the airborne/ranger thing a rest? What happened to plain old 'leg infantry? Personally, I'd like to do a US impression of one of the poor rear-area SOBs caught up in Bulge offensive or something similar (Here's your rifle- hold off the Germans as long as you can!). 

As for Soviets, I don't have any issues doing a Soviet impression and I did it for awhile but got bored with it- it seemed that most of the unit membership was in it to bust caps and didn't have a clue about the history. The only reason these guys were doing Soviet is that putting together an impression is dirt cheap.

That's my take on it.

[Philonivs Maximvs]

Robb, I'm going to steal your list of nations, and give my take on it all:


French - Butt of jokes, yes. But kit is becoming available, and it's a must if the early-war crowd is going to have anything to shoot at! A handful out there are doing Free French forces in Brit or US uniforms, which is cool. People that do these 2 main Allied impressions could easily convert.

Italy - It's a cool impression, always liked the uniforms. Two spins you can do here of course: pre-43 regular, or post-43 loyalists that fell under German command. The elite units were arguably equal to any of the other nations... I guess it was the average infantry that were ill-commanded.

Poland - Polish contributions are a list a mile long! FOUR possible impressions: 1939 regular army, 1940 outfitted by the French, Free Polish army in exile outfitted by the Brits, and the LWP (Polish People's Army) that fought under the Soviets (mix of Polish styled uniforms and standard Soviet kit). Too cool. These were hard-fighting lads with a vengeance!

Russian - Indeed, lingering Cold War mentality pervades some of the would-be "Urrah" fodder out there. I have to say that if you're like me and enjoy taking on a challenging, culturally-different impression like many claim German is, Russian/Soviet should be even that much more challenging. They had their own way of doing everything, different usually from anyone in the west. Hell, they thought Spam was a delicacy!   

Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian - May not be "cool kid", but hopefully some of the reenactors out there with those ethnic ties might take it up, much like a majority of the Poles have done. It would be a start! Plus, Romanian you get to switch sides too...

G.I. - No leg unit near you, Robb?? Wow, I would think at least a small 5-man group would be anywhere. That seems to be the unfortunate trend in GI these days: tiny leg units. They end up playing together at battles, but for some reason or another, can't be bothered to band into one group.... yes, of brothers. There, I said it 

Japanese - You'd think with the J-punk movement, killer electronics, and more sushi restaurants around than ever, people would be keen! Personally though, the stumbling block would be that I'm a 6'-1" tall Caucasian... same reason why I refuse to do NVA/VC in the 'Nam. Same reason I don't do WAC or female nurse impression.

Belgian - They & the Dutch actually fought some pitched battles at the onset... even the Fallschirmjaeger almost got beat up by them in a couple instances. You could be one of the few that retreated and fought briefly in France. Or do a Eben Emael battle... YES!! Anyone have a large hill we can carve out a bunker system into?? 

French Foreign Legion - Cool... don't know much about their European front contributions though.

Finnish - Did it, been there, got the T-shirt! Regular "SA" army and SK.Y militia (the guys you see in the "Winter War" movie). Limited only by the fact that you can only do eastern front, but you can do the early 1939-40 Winter War, or 1941-44 alongside the "occupying" Germans.

Brit and Canadian - Indeed, seems that only a handful take these on still, and when they do, many of them have to be either para or commando, or some elite Guard unit that happened to receive a case of Denison pattern camo. OK... I'll promise to stop yelling "DON'T JUST STAND THERE! LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEE THE HAND OF GOD BEFORE!!!" at you if you do it up 

Ohh, and CIVILIAN - Yep, you knew I'd plug it. Wear whatever fashion from Europe in the 30's/40's you want, mess with the guys wearing uniform, repel the Soviet hordes with your Cz-24 & 5 rounds, or just dodge bullets as you get your stuff & family to safety. Oh, it's gonna be the next Airborne, I tell ya.... 

[daniels]

I have bene kicking around the idea of doing Finnish Army (heck I can even speak some of the language) but I like to complete my 1st ww2 impression and get the feel of reenacting this era first befor screwing up an 2nd one.
I don't know is that an odd thing
So any one looking to sell thier Finnish Army impression on the cheap? Any one in the upper midwest (Minnesota area) looking to sink more cash in to another impression and start up a unit from scratch?